Theo. – A great number of people say that they work on the chakras. What would you say about it?

The Elder – As you may have observed, the chakras are to be found on several planes. Each chakra has an impact both on a nervous plexus connected to our organs, and on the covers (koshas) of our energy, mind and intellect. Therapists may work on these planes, but they rarely have an access to atman (the soul) or to the causal body covering the embodied soul.

Theo. – So, what do they actually do?

The Elder – They work on all that concerns the personality.

Theo. – Such as energy movements, as in acupuncture?

The Elder – Exactly! You are well aware that when we are working on the energy flow in the meridians, it is the Qi (energy) that operates on the patient’s physiology as well as on his/her feelings and emotions.

Theo. – And what of the “marvelous vessels” (the extraordinary meridians, as they are called in acupuncture)?

The Elder – Meridians are the equivalent of the nadis, in Yoga, the main channels being ida and pingala, the Chinese Mother Yin and Mother Yang.
In my opinion, they are the equivalent of the chakras. They have no point of their own. They just belong to another dimension of the being, though we consider that they are ground water for the being’s energies.

Theo. – I’ve read that, in traditional yoga, we use the power of Shakti by starting from the basal chakra (muladhara-chakra), then by crossing successively the next chakras, to finally reach the ajana-chakra and, from there, the sahasrara-chakra. For hatha-yogis, that would mean realizing the Self, which is the ultimate step. Can you explain how they proceed?


Ida, pingala, sushumna.

The Elder – They use pranayama (the breath), working on the two main nadis (meridians) ida and pingala. By alternately breathing through the right nostril, related to the sun, and the left nostril, related to the moon, they want to trigger the kundalini ascent via the central channel (sushumna) and through all the chakras. It requires a lot of energy.  But the process is not without danger, hence it must definitely be conducted by a competent master who will be able to make up for mistakes and deviations.  Some accidents may happen, that will impair your health, above all your mental health. Like us, they do want to attain Self Realization. Sometimes, you have to pay a high price for it… In our system, transmission (pranahuti) will prevent us from such troubles, the energy that is then transmitted being boundless, being a forceless force.

Theo. – Sure, but first we need to clean or rejuvenate, otherwise we shall only give strength to our tendencies, whether they are positive or negative. In order to advance on the Path, the soul requires a Master’s help, doesn’t it?

The Elder – We all need a mother to be born and be accompanied in our first months of life and in all the moments when we are still very fragile. The Master is a loving mother who offers help and protection until we become spiritually self-contained.

Theo. – And how do we approach the work on chakras in our practice as trainers?

The Elder – In the Sahaj Marg system, we do not use the traditional chakras, which are located in the spine. We do not need the kundalini power to reach the Ultimate, because we have that transmission, we have pranahuti. Our Masters decided that thus we would avoid using all the centres of power. As a trainer, you can understand why consciousness and self-effacement are necessary, as we have already mentioned when exploring the indispensable anahata-chakra.

Theo. – The ego could also be tempted to use these powers…

The Elder – … and thus see it jeopardize our Realization of the Self. Realization through the power of the divine love is the only way for us to overcome easily our inner obstacles. For me, love is the primary purpose, for the anahata-chakra. It bears in itself the vastness of the universe. It provides that feeling of infinity and of endlessness that you know so well.

Theo. – Since we have that infinite power, pranahuti, at our disposal, we don’t need anything else, do we?

The Elder – Pranahuti is a forceless force that comes directly from the Source. It can do anything because it is neutral.

Theo. – Are-there any other resources, other capacities to be discovered in anahata-chakra?

The Elder – The one that consists in touching other people’s hearts and be heard. Then, words, or a mere glance will become transmission.  The audience that is thus being moved seems to understand far beyond the words and ideas emitted.  When you are in a Sahaj Marg Master’s presence, your mind naturally settles down, your senses are balanced and your consciousness touches Infinity.

Theo. – Why?

Dreamily, the Elder remembered the blessed moments he had enjoyed in Babuji’s or in Chariji’s company…

– It is said that when you are in a Master’s presence, you are at the Centre, and your soul is peaceful.  As for me, I am in the Beloved’s presence and I think it is good enough.

Theo. – Is it always like that?

The Elder – Always, provided we are inwardly available. His radiating presence cannot be described; and we only wish that we could just always be there, close to it.
And one day, we happen to reside permanently in the Presence, deep into our Being, and the Beloved is forever there.

Theo. – Babuji would add, “And that is where it all begins…”.

The Elder welcomed it warmly. Then, a timeless silence took place between the two friends. What if we joined them …

Theophile the Elder
An excerpt from Dialogs with Theophile the Elder
Theophile the Younger’s Initiation