{"id":4273,"date":"2018-11-06T06:00:00","date_gmt":"2018-11-06T05:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/?p=4273\/"},"modified":"2024-05-27T11:55:14","modified_gmt":"2024-05-27T09:55:14","slug":"theo-trainer-7-spiritual-position-reading-conditions","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/theo-trainer-7-spiritual-position-reading-conditions\/","title":{"rendered":"Theo becomes a trainer, part 7, spiritual position and reading conditions"},"content":{"rendered":"
Theo. \u2013 Is there any difference between the spiritual condition and the spiritual position?<\/em><\/h5>\n
\n

Spiritual position<\/h3>\n

The Elder \u2013 It may take quite a long time before you are able to really know where an aspirant is standing, spiritually speaking. Babuji<\/a> himself said that had to spend a long time observing before he could precisely assess the aspirant’s spiritual position. Theo. \u2013 Yet, Babuji was an exceptional and non-standard being, a seeing and hearing personality, who was directly connected with Lalaji, the Masters and the Saints. How do you explain such a paradox? The Elder \u2013 Masters of Wisdom<\/a> had been mapping the various chakras and spiritual regions for ages. They have given us a very precise description of each chakra, of its structure and its subtle form. Theo. \u2013 A sort of anatomical description of the chakras, in a way! The Elder \u2013 So to speak! The problem is that many think they are spiritually working on a chakra whereas they are only touching its surface. I remember that day when we were watching a Sufi trainer’s video. As the trainer was helping a seeker work on the different points, he pointed at them in order to show the advancement of the yatra<\/a><\/em>. My Master’s comment was; “That is no spiritual; it is psychic.” Theo. \u2013 Which means? The Elder \u2013 Very often, the work will operate only at the lower levels of the soul: the physical level (annamaya-kosha<\/em>), the energy level (pranamaya-kosha<\/em>) and the emotional level (manomaya-kosha<\/em>), so that only the surface portion of the chakras is affected, the spiritual one, which is located at another level, remaining untouched. Theo. \u2013 How do we know? The Elder \u2013 Observation will let you know. But it all depends on the ability, the nature and the own spiritual level of the person who is observing. Theo. \u2013 The spiritual level, though, depends on the work the Master did on the trainer, and on the permission he gave the trainer to transmit pranahuti<\/em>. It is also the Master who opened the channel for his\/her becoming a trainer. The Elder \u2013 Exactly! He even opens the levels of consciousness related to the different regions, the highest one being the Divine consciousness.\u00a0 But the trainer will be granted it only when he\/she is ready, and particularly if it is essential for his\/her work. Should such ability be given prematurely, it could hamper the trainer’s own evolution, as it needs to be well integrated in order to be used properly. Theo. \u2013 Do you mean that it could be misused? The Elder \u2013 No! Fortunately, the Master has systematically established a protection.<\/p>\n

\"Emplacement

Location of point 10.<\/p><\/div>\n

Theo. \u2013 You have already explained that such capacities should only be used once the trainer has realized God (point 10). Does it mean that, so long as the eleven circles of the ego have not been crossed, the ego can still take control, with all the consequences it would entail? The Elder \u2013 That is the reason why the Master fosters self-forgetfulness, submission or obedience. If it is well understood, the Inner Master will be able to guide the work without letting the ego interfere<\/a>. Theo. \u2013 What could the ego do? The Elder \u2013 Interpret, embellish or even influence the aspirant. But what do we know about what God has in store for the Truth Seeker? Do we know anything about the way He will have the seeker follow? Theo. \u2013 Humility is the secret! Unfortunately, I don’t know whether I can be humble, because I want so much to do well and learn more and more so as to serve better and better. The Elder \u2013 That thirst for knowledge is good in the way it emphasizes our ignorance. Humility will logically follow. Theo. (teasingly<\/em>): \u2013 I see, the more you know and the less you know… I too can deal with paradoxes! The Elder (smiling<\/em>): \u2013 Then you become a learned ignorant person, whereas you were only an ignorant learned person, the Elder adds, quite pleased with his new oxymoron. Caught out, Theo smiled and continued reasoning aloud: \u2013 Do you mean that true knowing comes from unknowing, the sort of knowledge Babuji called Ignorance with a capital I? The Elder \u2013 He used to say that we start with being unknowing, then we become knowing, and we end with being Ignorant. Theo. \u2013 It is a different sort of Ignorance of course… The Elder \u2013 An Ignorance related to the Divine Consciousness. Theo. \u2013 Having become nothing, we become everything. It’s all about that ‘Nothing-and-All’ you have been mentioning for a long time. The Elder \u2013 That’s right. All of this means that it is difficult to reach a definite agreement on a meditator’s spiritual position.<\/p>\n

Reading conditions<\/h3>\n

Theo. \u2013 And what about reading conditions? The Elder \u2013 That is different. A trainer can easily have an access to the spiritual and the psychological condition of the aspirant he\/she is responsible for. Theo. \u2013 How can we access it? The Elder \u2013 At first, you must be able to read your own condition, which we have been practising for more than two years now. You don’t have to worry about it.\u00a0 Instead of turning your eyes towards your inner self, just turn your inward look towards the meditator who is sitting opposite you. Theo. \u2013 My inward look as an observer<\/a> towards the aspirant’s inner self, is that it? The Elder \u2013 It is. You have read all that our Masters said about the Sahaj Marg<\/a>. You have passed the knowledge test of the future trainer. Well! Now, you must forget it all. Theo. \u2013 The whole of it? Why? The Elder \u2013 You must forget to avoid projecting that knowledge onto the aspirant. Even though we all have to pass along similar paths, even when following our Way, our teachings, each one of us has a particular way to approach the Ultimate. That approach is unique, as unique as our relationship with God. Theo. \u2013 Though we are all One! The Elder \u2013 We are, but without being identical; even the spiritual entities of the great Masters remain unique. You can identify them among all others, but they cannot be differentiated from the Unique, from God. Theo. \u2013 Even at the highest level? The Elder \u2013 We don’t distinguish them, but are we able to perceive such a level and what for? Anyway, we can distinguish them only if the great Masters or the Lords want it to happen, if they allow it, when they are on a mission for the Lord, in denser plans. Theo. \u2013 Can they be perceived in the heart region (pindesh<\/em>) and in the cosmic region (brahmanda-mandal<\/em>)? The Elder \u2013 They are in the brahmanda-Mandal<\/em>, generally. They reside there whenever they are on a mission. Reaching our plan of existence is difficult for them. Theo. \u2013 Is that the reason why they have to proceed via a living Master? The Elder \u2013 Living Masters have become perfect instruments for many reasons. Sometimes, even great Beings may sacrifice themselves and become incarnate down here only for guiding us. Theo. \u2013 Why do you refer to the term ‘sacrifice’? The Elder \u2013 I refer to a love-inspired sacrifice. Imagine that such an extremely subtle being, a perfect being, has to become incarnate among us, on this Earth! Theo. \u2013 I needn’t imagine it. Though I am not like them, every day I can feel the earth gravity and the earthly heaviness! Weighed down by the torrid heat, the Elder stood up and withdrew quietly after he had greeted his friend affectionately. As Theo watched the old man shamble away, he still better understood that notion of sacrifice… To be continued\u2026<\/a><\/p>\n

Theophile the Elder An excerpt from Dialogues with Theophile the Elder<\/em> Theophile the Younger\u2019s initiation<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Theo. \u2013 Is there any difference between the spiritual condition and the spiritual position? Spiritual position The Elder \u2013 It may take quite a long time before you are able to really know where an aspirant is standing, spiritually speaking. Babuji himself said that had to spend a long time observing before he could precisely […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":11,"featured_media":4203,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_et_pb_use_builder":"","_et_pb_old_content":"","_et_gb_content_width":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_publicize_message":"","jetpack_publicize_feature_enabled":true,"jetpack_social_post_already_shared":true,"jetpack_social_options":{"image_generator_settings":{"template":"highway","default_image_id":0,"font":"","enabled":false},"version":2}},"categories":[600,422,877,354,400,475,394,378,855],"tags":[840,591,858],"class_list":["post-4273","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blog-en","category-chakras-en","category-dialogues","category-path-spiritual-journey-initiation-yatra","category-raja-yoga-according-to-sahaj-marg","category-spiritual-anatomy","category-spiritual-paths","category-theophile-the-youngers-initiation","category-trainer","tag-condition-en","tag-envelops","tag-position-en"],"yoast_head":"\nTheo becomes a trainer, part 7, spiritual position and reading conditions - 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Il a grandi dans un environnement favorisant, avec des parents tr\u00e8s ouverts. Dans sa jeunesse, il a ressenti le besoin de rencontrer un ma\u00eetre spirituel pour \u00eatre guid\u00e9 dans sa qu\u00eate de l'Ultime. Sa rencontre avec Shri Ram Chandra (Babuji) sera fondatrice. Sur ses pas, il pratique la voie du Sahaj Marg pendant 40 ans. Gr\u00e2ce \u00e0 la m\u00e9ditation du c\u0153ur, \u00e0 la pri\u00e8re et \u00e0 la contemplation, il a approfondi sa relation \u00e0 Dieu. Il conserve un vif int\u00e9r\u00eat pour toutes les traditions spirituelles authentiques, qu'il \u00e9tudie et unifie dans le message universel qu'il transmet dans ses enseignements : chacun d'entre nous est une voie d'acc\u00e8s pour aller \u00e0 Dieu. Et pour cheminer, Patrick nous propose la voie privil\u00e9gi\u00e9e de l'amour - sagesse. Son exp\u00e9rience personnelle, ses connaissances et ses enseignements sont partag\u00e9es au travers de vid\u00e9os disponibles sur sa cha\u00eene et son site : En Chemin avec Th\u00e9ophile l'Ancien.","url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/author\/p-fleury\/"}]}},"jetpack_publicize_connections":[],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/10\/143.jpg?fit=1920%2C702&ssl=1","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":2876,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/childhood-part-2\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":0},"title":"Childhood, part 2","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"23\/11\/2017","format":false,"excerpt":"Theo. - Last time, when you spoke about your spiritual quest, didn't you tell me that you had met Shri Ram Chandra? Were you in quest of an Indian Master? The Elder - No! I was in search of God, inwardly, concretely, through my own experience. Theo. - What made\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Blog"","block_context":{"text":"Blog","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/blog-en\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"enfance, partie 2","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/108-enfance-partie-2.jpg?fit=1200%2C673&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/108-enfance-partie-2.jpg?fit=1200%2C673&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/108-enfance-partie-2.jpg?fit=1200%2C673&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/108-enfance-partie-2.jpg?fit=1200%2C673&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/09\/108-enfance-partie-2.jpg?fit=1200%2C673&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":3900,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/equanimity-importance-presence\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":1},"title":"Equanimity, importance of the Presence","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"26\/06\/2018","format":false,"excerpt":"Theo. \u2013 Last time, you explained that we had to maintain that state of equanimity within ourselves. But you will accept, I guess, that sometimes such a balance may be affected, won't you? The Elder \u2013 And then be restored, of course, by returning to the Presence. Theo. \u2013 Which\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Blog"","block_context":{"text":"Blog","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/blog-en\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"Equanimit\u00e9-Pr\u00e9sence","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/133-Equanimit%C3%A9-2-Pr%C3%A9sence.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/133-Equanimit%C3%A9-2-Pr%C3%A9sence.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/133-Equanimit%C3%A9-2-Pr%C3%A9sence.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/133-Equanimit%C3%A9-2-Pr%C3%A9sence.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2018\/05\/133-Equanimit%C3%A9-2-Pr%C3%A9sence.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":5522,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/transmission-maitres-deepen-1\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":2},"title":"Deepening 1- The quality of a Master","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"24\/04\/2020","format":false,"excerpt":"The quality of a Master [...] What is a Master valued for? A Master\u2019s worth is his capacity to merge into God and to no longer exist. Here again, that can be found in our spiritual traditions: fana (in Sufism), self-annihilation (among Christians), pralaya (for Yogis and the Vedanta). There\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "AmphiTheo"","block_context":{"text":"AmphiTheo","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/amphitheo\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"167-Deepen 1- The quality of a Master","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/167-Deepen-1-The-quality-of-a-Master-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C693&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/167-Deepen-1-The-quality-of-a-Master-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C693&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/167-Deepen-1-The-quality-of-a-Master-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C693&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/167-Deepen-1-The-quality-of-a-Master-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C693&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2020\/11\/167-Deepen-1-The-quality-of-a-Master-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C693&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":4363,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/yoga-part-1-raja-yoga\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":3},"title":"Yoga, part 1, raja-yoga","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"15\/11\/2018","format":false,"excerpt":"Theo. \u2013 There is much talk about yoga, these days, but it seems the talking covers many different practices, including ours. Could you please clarify what Yoga really means? The Elder \u2013 Like the Vedas, Yoga dates back to ages ago. At the time, the Rishis of Ancient India (Bharata)\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Babuji \u2013 Ram Chandra"","block_context":{"text":"Babuji \u2013 Ram Chandra","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/spiritual-paths\/spiritual-masters\/babuji-ram-chandra-en\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"102-yoga-raja-yoga","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/102-yoga-raja-yoga.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/102-yoga-raja-yoga.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/102-yoga-raja-yoga.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/102-yoga-raja-yoga.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/06\/102-yoga-raja-yoga.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":3992,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/advanced-practice-1-become-what-you-are\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":4},"title":"Advanced Practice \u2013 Part 1: Become what you are","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"19\/07\/2018","format":false,"excerpt":"The Younger \u2013 Will I have to practice meditation, cleaning, prayer and constant remembrance all my life? \u2013 You have just started and you already want to stop? the Elder asks jokingly. Theo. \u2013 I like practicing, and I particularly appreciate the unique benefits I get from it, but I\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Advanced practice"","block_context":{"text":"Advanced practice","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/working-on-oneself\/practice\/advanced-practice\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"062-pratique-avanc\u00e9e-devenir","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/062-pratique-avanc%C3%A9e-partie-1.jpg?fit=1200%2C1170&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/062-pratique-avanc%C3%A9e-partie-1.jpg?fit=1200%2C1170&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/062-pratique-avanc%C3%A9e-partie-1.jpg?fit=1200%2C1170&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/062-pratique-avanc%C3%A9e-partie-1.jpg?fit=1200%2C1170&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/03\/062-pratique-avanc%C3%A9e-partie-1.jpg?fit=1200%2C1170&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]},{"id":2538,"url":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/a-master\/","url_meta":{"origin":4273,"position":5},"title":"A Master","author":"Patrick Fleury","date":"03\/06\/2017","format":false,"excerpt":"After the experience he had in the mountain, Theo would like to develop further the notion of having a Master. Theo. \u2013 Your friend Malik had really clarified for me the high spiritual competence of a Master of Wisdom, but the experience I've had in the mountain allowed me to\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Dialogues"","block_context":{"text":"Dialogues","link":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/category\/dialogues\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"073-ma\u00eetre","src":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/073-un-ma%C3%AEtre.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200","width":350,"height":200,"srcset":"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/073-un-ma%C3%AEtre.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=350%2C200 1x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/073-un-ma%C3%AEtre.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=525%2C300 1.5x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/073-un-ma%C3%AEtre.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=700%2C400 2x, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/theophilelancien.org\/wp-content\/uploads\/2017\/02\/073-un-ma%C3%AEtre.jpg?fit=1200%2C900&ssl=1&resize=1050%2C600 3x"},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4273","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/11"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4273"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4273\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":11996,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4273\/revisions\/11996"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/4203"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4273"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4273"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/theophilelancien.org\/en\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4273"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}